(I realize this is a decidedly uncheerful topic. I promise to not only make the next post more cheerful, but also to start it with a knock-knock joke as a bit of compensation.)
During a terminally ill patient’s less lucid moments, he’d reach his arms up to the ceiling, ignoring everyone around him, the nurse at the head of the table explained. Eventually, when he was awake, he informed his family that he was reaching up to god and that they shouldn’t disturb him during these moments. Everyone around the table nodded approvingly. The nurse recounted another story, where a staff member’s grandfather, “a very bad man”, started yelling that his feet were burning as he lay dying in his hospital bed. Everyone around the table gasped and looked properly horrified. We all had ours stories to tell, of inspiring or scary end of life experiences, and everyone was able to happily file away the information as further evidence of the afterlife planned by a Christian god.
Well, everyone except me.
During a terminally ill patient’s less lucid moments, he’d reach his arms up to the ceiling, ignoring everyone around him, the nurse at the head of the table explained. Eventually, when he was awake, he informed his family that he was reaching up to god and that they shouldn’t disturb him during these moments. Everyone around the table nodded approvingly. The nurse recounted another story, where a staff member’s grandfather, “a very bad man”, started yelling that his feet were burning as he lay dying in his hospital bed. Everyone around the table gasped and looked properly horrified. We all had ours stories to tell, of inspiring or scary end of life experiences, and everyone was able to happily file away the information as further evidence of the afterlife planned by a Christian god.
Well, everyone except me.
I’m five weeks into a seven week training program for a local non-profit Hospice and, as the only atheist (actually, as the only non-Christian), periodically find myself squirming in my seat in the unable-to-identify-yet-unwilling-to-dissent sort of uncomfortable that comes from being part of an often distrusted minority. My New Year’s resolution of this year was to be more outspoken, and one of the ways I’ve attempted to do so is by being more open about my lack-of-theism. However, sitting around that table, I was entirely uncomfortable with the idea of expressing my own interpretations of those stories and I instead just squirmed silently.
I can’t think of a moment where atheism is more of a challenge to a Christian belief system than when it comes to death and the concept of an afterlife. When considering heaven and hell, Christians can’t brush us off as just a misinterpretation, as they might other varieties of Christianity, Judaism, or even less related religions, such as Islam or Hinduism. Atheism isn’t just another version of theism, but instead a direct rejection of the biblical idea of the afterlife. This is a touchy subject when it comes to loved ones who people desperately want to believe “live on.”
I’m not scared of death. Certainly, I’m in favor of living. However, the thought of slipping into an unknown doesn’t terrify me; it just gives me incentive to live more deeply and savor the time I do have. I’m okay with not knowing what might come after death, even if, as I think is likely, it’s nothing at all. It’s a question that I’m willing to leave unanswered, for the moment at least. Deciding whether to be vocal when others come up with answers that I find implausible? Now, that’s more of an immediate challenge.
I think that after I move past the training and into the volunteering itself, it should be less complicated. My goal is to be a Hospice volunteer specifically for nonreligious families, because I think the end of life concerns and questions are a bit different. It would perhaps be a bit easier for a terminally-ill freethinker to talk about this with a fellow freethinker rather than even a well-intentioned believer.
My questions to you: as atheists, what are your views towards death and dying? Do you feel the end of life issues and inquiries are different for an atheist than for a believer? How can we provide support to terminally-ill atheists? Finally, have you had situations where you’ve discussed dying with theists? How have you handled these discussions? I’d appreciate any input.
(cross posted at The Atheist Mama)
I can’t think of a moment where atheism is more of a challenge to a Christian belief system than when it comes to death and the concept of an afterlife. When considering heaven and hell, Christians can’t brush us off as just a misinterpretation, as they might other varieties of Christianity, Judaism, or even less related religions, such as Islam or Hinduism. Atheism isn’t just another version of theism, but instead a direct rejection of the biblical idea of the afterlife. This is a touchy subject when it comes to loved ones who people desperately want to believe “live on.”
I’m not scared of death. Certainly, I’m in favor of living. However, the thought of slipping into an unknown doesn’t terrify me; it just gives me incentive to live more deeply and savor the time I do have. I’m okay with not knowing what might come after death, even if, as I think is likely, it’s nothing at all. It’s a question that I’m willing to leave unanswered, for the moment at least. Deciding whether to be vocal when others come up with answers that I find implausible? Now, that’s more of an immediate challenge.
I think that after I move past the training and into the volunteering itself, it should be less complicated. My goal is to be a Hospice volunteer specifically for nonreligious families, because I think the end of life concerns and questions are a bit different. It would perhaps be a bit easier for a terminally-ill freethinker to talk about this with a fellow freethinker rather than even a well-intentioned believer.
My questions to you: as atheists, what are your views towards death and dying? Do you feel the end of life issues and inquiries are different for an atheist than for a believer? How can we provide support to terminally-ill atheists? Finally, have you had situations where you’ve discussed dying with theists? How have you handled these discussions? I’d appreciate any input.
(cross posted at The Atheist Mama)
11 comments:
I think that, just before dying, nothing would annoy me more than a "well-intentionned believer". I'd rather ask for a nice glass of Armagnac with my best friends...
I had a bad experience with that. When my cousin died at 24, the priest literaly hijacked him at the funeral ceremony saying that he turned to God in the end of his life, wheras he really was agnostic. This infuriated me, and I do NOT want any religious funeral ceremony. Instead, I'd like people to drink wine and eat well this day, to remember how I loved life and how I thought that we had to live it fully since after death, there is absolutely nothing but a cold body and memories.
From my observations, I've seen that theists usually have more fear regarding death than non-theists. Something about being afraid of a burning pit just doesn't let them rest well. Personally, we'll see what happens ne?
I guess I have a rather relaxed view on death. I mean, when my parents die, my main worry won't be mourning, but having to organize all their freaking assets, which I'm not looking forward to. Especially if my dad doesn't have his oil assets organized by then. I almost wish they were immortal because of that.
Other than that, I find it hard to get theists to actually discuss death. Like its some taboo or something.
There is an anecdote from Russell involving his discussion with a woman: She said, "oh, he's gone to a much better place" adding immediately, "but let's not talk of such sad things".
I'm sure I've mangled this story but you get the gist.
I agree with meso, theists I have met do seem to be more worried about death but I suppose that is why they Believe.
Good for you for volunteering and your goal to help non-believers is very admirable.
Snoow,
I think I’d like people to remember me in the same way… no unnecessary grief, no services…. just remembrances of the way I viewed and lived my life.
I’m sorry to hear of the issues with your cousin’s funeral… yes, that would infuriate me as well.
Meso and Remy,
A relative commented that she’d imagine atheists at the end of their lives reconsider the idea of theism out of a fear of death. I found that somewhat insulting, though I’d imagine she didn’t mean it in an insulting manner. I haven’t had to face my own death. However, I’ve seen enough of life to know that I don’t choose happy fuzzy thoughts out of a fear of reality. It doesn’t seem terribly likely that I would choose to do so on my death bed.
Oh, and Meso… oil assets, eh? (mentally calculates half her age plus seven)
(mentally calculates half her age plus seven)
So, I guess you still remeber our conversation about Billy Joel. You made me bust out laughing in the middle of work. ^_^
So, I guess you still remeber our conversation about Billy Joel.
Yep. ;)
You made me bust out laughing in the middle of work. ^_^
Good... it'll help balance the dour image you spoke of in an earlier post.
Outlook on death? I'd rather not die, I'd rather not anyone I'm remotely fond of die, but I hear it's hard to avoid. Oh well. I've never endured the threat of a terminal illness or anything like that, and I imagine I'd be very depressed if I did. But my grandfather seems to quite enjoy being 80-odd years and statistically near death...he loves to talk about all the circumstances under which I should shoot/smother/explode him if he ends up comatose or severely brain-damaged. Hopefully I'd find a similar state of morbid contentment after a bit. I'm not sure what a volunteer could do for me under such circumstances other than provide conversation, but you're very attractive, and that would help. I'll have to make sure to pass away at Our Lady of the Short Skirt and Frequent Sessions on the Stairmaster. Come to think of it, if my wife could spend the whole time in a nurse uniform, that would almost make it worthwhile....
My goal is to be a Hospice volunteer specifically for nonreligious families, because I think the end of life concerns and questions are a bit different. It would perhaps be a bit easier for a terminally-ill freethinker to talk about this with a fellow freethinker rather than even a well-intentioned believer.
I think you might be better even for religious families, since if a religious volunteer is of a different faith, that might be more harmful than helpful. I wouldn't want to be a Muslim/Hindu/Jew being tended by, for instance, that nurse who thinks she actually witnessed the grandfather being consigned to Hell; that's like employing a traumatized 'Nam vet at a firing range. Whereas you not only have no moral objection to a dying person believing silliness, but as an atheist you have tons of practical experience not accidentally offending people with a different religious viewpoint.
It's really wonderful that you're doing this. I've done a bit of volunteer work with animals, but I don't think I could cope with suffering humans.
I'm not sure what a volunteer could do for me under such circumstances other than provide conversation, but you're very attractive, and that would help. I'll have to make sure to pass away at Our Lady of the Short Skirt and Frequent Sessions on the Stairmaster. Come to think of it, if my wife could spend the whole time in a nurse uniform, that would almost make it worthwhile....
I’ll have to suggest Hospice recruit attractive strippers in nurse uniforms.
Whereas you not only have no moral objection to a dying person believing silliness, but as an atheist you have tons of practical experience not accidentally offending people with a different religious viewpoint.
True. My tongue is accustomed to being bitten when the topic of religion comes up.
It's really wonderful that you're doing this. I've done a bit of volunteer work with animals, but I don't think I could cope with suffering humans.
My dad died in Hospice care quite a while ago and it’s, at least in part, my way of giving back. The organization I’m volunteering with was very good to him and to my family after his death.
What sorts of animal organizations did you work with… and around here or in SF? There are a couple excellent shelters in the area that I’d love to work with if I had the time… but I seem to have run out, for the moment.
I’ll have to suggest Hospice recruit attractive strippers in nurse uniforms.
Oh, pish. You'll never raise the public opinion of atheists if you don't do the hard jobs yourself, you know. Why do you think I teach with pasties on?*
What sorts of animal organizations did you work with… and around here or in SF?
When we lived in Berkeley, we fostered for Milo & Home at Last, which are both excellent organizations and very firm on their spay/neuter policy. (My wife also worked for the Berkeley Humane Society when she was a kid, but as she almost got asphyxiated by carbon monoxide once because they were working in a closed garage, I'm not sure I can recommend it as such.)
We've never been able to "officially" foster in Columbus, due to the stricter regulations at most apartment complexes, so I can't say much about the local animal charities. But the Midwest is so strewn with stray dogs and litters of kittens under bushes next to the sidewalk and roadside boxes of puppies marked "FREE" that somehow we always end up adopting out a few each year.
Actually, the one thing I can say about local organizations is that they're incredibly overstretched and underfunded. We've always ended up doing the fostering and veterinarizing and advertising for adoption out ourselves, simply because it's so hard to find a group with time and money to do any of those. Not their fault, of course. Incidentally, we've had more success advertising on Craigslist than on any of the adoption-specific classifieds sites. And both Chittenden and Swenson Veterinaries do thorough puppy/kitten checkups en masse at very reasonable rates, I say without having received money or stock options from any of the above.
*Well, technically they aren't really pasties per se. But I do eat pastries frequently, and sometimes I get crumbs on my chest, and that's close enough.
I wrote: I’ll have to suggest Hospice recruit attractive strippers in nurse uniforms.
Anton wrote:Oh, pish. You'll never raise the public opinion of atheists if you don't do the hard jobs yourself, you know. Why do you think I teach with pasties on?*
Okay, okay, I’ll do the nurse outfit/stripping myself. However, if I go to all this effort, I expect those patients to die with smiles!
I’m terribly proud of you for raising the local teaching standards. I might have actually gone to a few more of my undergraduate classes had they included either pasties or pastries.
Incidentally, we've had more success advertising on Craigslist than on any of the adoption-specific classifieds sites.
(nods) I’ve found the same, though the pets I would adopt out would usually be ones that people would leave on my front porch. I used to live in the country. For some reason, people in the city think that people in the country allllllwwwwaaays want more pets.
Okay, okay, I’ll do the nurse outfit/stripping myself. However, if I go to all this effort, I expect those patients to die with smiles!
I'll dose myself with Mad Cow and sign up just to meet your expectations, I promise.
(nods) I’ve found the same, though the pets I would adopt out would usually be ones that people would leave on my front porch. I used to live in the country. For some reason, people in the city think that people in the country allllllwwwwaaays want more pets.
How...remarkably horrible. So rural areas are basically this unofficial charity pet exchange for all concerned, then, where the city assholes drop off their unwanted animals and the country assholes leave them in boxes next to the road in front of their trailers?
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